Crazy that she was in such a heavily criss-crossed area as the Dome. Very sad end. There are a dozen assumptions I feel like we could make but in the end they are just guesses.
YepOriginally Posted by HooKooDooKu
And when panic begins all rational thought capabillity ends
Ive seen persons in a minor car accident, completely uninjured, unable to dial a phone,
The mental shock of something unexpected and bad happening, really renders people helpless sometimes.
Last edited by MuddyWaters; 10-03-2018 at 07:19.
It is not credible to believe she walked two mile off trail on a wet mountain side... especially since Goshen Prong intersection on the AT is about the right position for her to be at sunset given they split just north of the bald at 5:00pm.
So this is sort of the Sherlock Holmes meathod of deduction... what is the simplest explanation that fits the evidence.
IIRC, the trail follows the south side of a rocky outcropping for awhile in that section. She could have veered off the trail in that area for some reason and never got to the Goshen Prong trail junction. Failing light, tired, maybe that side of the ridge had more light. Maybe just lost the trail and going down hill is easier.
One of those things we'll never know.
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Found this picture in a google search. If she got as far as the Goshen Prong intersection and if it wasn't too dark to see the sign, she would have found that 1) she was going away from Clingman's Dome, and 2) shelter is a mere 0.6 miles away.
I hate to think what her state of mind must have been to willingly leave the broad well-marked well-traveled Appalachian Trail and plummet into the darkness of the woods. As MW alluded to, panic is a disabling condition.
a lesson i take from it, and based on similar things i've observed before, especially in places like national parks, is you don't start hikes, no matter how short, at a time of day when the setting sun is going to become an issue if you end up an hour or two later than planned.
i see it all the time. its 2 or 3 hours until sunset and people are setting out into the woods on a short 4 mile hike (like 2 miles out and 2 back). always strikes me as a less than great idea. unless youre prepared to hike in the dark or spend the night.
Sad news
Missing hiker from Ohio found dead in Smoky Mountains after weeklong search
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mis...kZa?ocid=ientp
edit: Apparently my forum messages are not updating properly. when I typed this there were no 'found' messages. Right after I posted there were pages. Sorry.
Last edited by perrymk; 10-03-2018 at 09:24.
I only reference the Goshen Prong intersection because she was found almost due south from that intersection.
But given the drainage she was found in, the idea that she got there coming down off the AT still fits as being the "simple" explanation if she heads off trail at any point after walking the AT for as little as 3/4 of a mile (right where the AT takes a relatively hard right) but no later that about 1/10 mile beyond the Goshen Prong intersection.
If you use the "rule of thumb" that the average hiker should be able to hike at 2mph and add 1 hour for every 1,000' in elevation gain...
If she starts 1/4 mile north of the bald at 5:00, she reaches the AT about 6:30. By 7:00, she's half-way between the intersections for the Bypass Trail and Goshen Prong (well beyond that 3/4 mile mark that puts her above the Huggins Creek drainage). The sun will set about 15 minutes later, and she'll have about another 30 minutes of light after that.
Actually, looking at the terrain of the drainage, the easiest way to get to where she was found would be to go off trail right about where the AT makes that right-hand turn. Loggy Ridge is on the left, and Huggins Creek is the primary drainage for Loggy Ridge. The terrain is actually less step if you start going down hill on Loggy Ridge because the terrain off the AT only gets steeper the closer to Goshen Prong you get.
BTW: Devils Court House Ridge and Loggy Ridge are between the Forney Creek drainage and the Huggins Creek drainage. The reason I state that it's not credible to believe she went down Forney Creek is because that would require she head west off trail for 2 miles and never drop more than 500' in elevation, or you have to go all the way down to #69 on Forney Creek, ford two of the creeks deep water crossings, and then follow Huggins Creek uphill for two miles... in the dark or in the rain the next day(s).
Last edited by HooKooDooKu; 10-03-2018 at 09:52.
There are a dozen assumptions I feel like we could make but in the end they are just guesses.
that is correct.....
we are all making guesses-------there's only one person who knew exactly the route taken.................
Good evidence that she likely didn't make it as far as Goshen Prong Trail before going off trail.
Sorry Tipi, I disagree. I think that is a horrible oversimplification. Yeah, if one person is not really prepared or competent to be solo in the environment you are hiking in then yeah, no duh, don't separate. BUT, why in the world shouldn't I separate from my wife if we're hiking together and at some point she wants to go a different direction or turn around sooner, or go further, AND, both of us are perfectly capable and prepared to be able to hike the hike solo?
On another note regarding this, someone, at some point, in this thread suggested that the family though she might have had a low blood sugar event and gotten disoriented. I would love to know if that is a true possibility, indicating that the woman was diabetic. If so, it makes the risk of hiking and being solo a much more genuine and serious concern. I am especially interested given that my 20 yr old son, a type-1 diabetic on an insulin pump, finished the PCT earlier this week, most of which he hiked solo. If she was diabetic, it makes me extra sad, as it hits that much closer to home.
I'm not lost. I'm exploring.
not a whole lot of new information but this came down a few minutes ago...
Body of Missing Woman Found
Great Smoky Mountains National Park officials announced last night that search crews found the body of Mitzie Sue “Susan” Clements, 53, from Cleves, Ohio, after an extensive, week-long search. Clements had been missing from the Clingmans Dome area of the park since Tuesday, September 25. A large-scale search operation was launched, which included trained searchers, canine teams, helicopters, and drones with advanced technology from around 50 local, state, and federal agencies and professional search and rescue groups.
Late yesterday afternoon, Clements' body was found off-trail, in a rugged, heavily wooded area of the Huggins Creek drainage, approximately two miles from Clingmans Dome parking area and three-fourths mile south of the Appalachian Trail. The cause of death is under investigation, however foul play is not suspected at this time.
“Our deepest condolences go out to the family, friends, and co-workers of Susan during this difficult time,” said park Superintendent Cassius Cash. “We are grieving with the family and hope that yesterday’s recovery helps provide some closure as they begin their own grieving process.” He added, “I am inspired by, and extremely grateful for, the tireless work of our park staff, as well as the generous assistance provided by dozens of agencies and well-trained search and rescue organizations.”
Clingmans Dome Road remains closed to allow staff time to remove the infrastructure brought in to help manage and support the search operation. The road and Clingmans Dome parking area are expected to reopen by tomorrow morning.
The family of Susan Clements provided this statement to share with the public:
“I want to specifically thank the National Park Service for their incredible efforts. The cooperation shown between more than 50 agencies was amazing, comforting, and very supportive. Every piece of the operation, including the scientific fronts, logistical parts, and the emotional support provided to us was very impressive. The children, her sisters, and I want to especially thank Jared St. Clair (Chief Ranger), Joe Pond (Incident Commander), James Latendresse (Operations Chief), and Florie Takaki (Family Liaison) for their dedication and support. We also want to thank the countless other people who helped look for Susan. This includes the ground searchers, pilots, drone operators, dog trackers, technicians, EMS providers, the many teams of tactical climbers and rescuers, and the Tennessee Emergency Management Agency. The kids, her sisters, and I greatly appreciate the intense work they performed for us, and we will be eternally grateful.”
An estimated 175 personnel assisted in the complex search operation of some of the most rugged terrain found in the park.
Cooperating organizations that assisted staff from Great Smoky Mountains National Park included: AmeriCorps, Backcountry Unit Search and Rescue, Black Diamond Search and Rescue, Blount County Rescue Squad, Blount County Special Operations Response Team, Blue and Gray Search and Rescue Dogs, Blue Ridge Mountain Rescue Group, Buncombe County Rescue Squad, Catons Chapel-Richardson Cove Volunteer Fire Department, Cherokee Indian Police Department, Cherokee Tribal EMS, Christian Aid Ministries Search and Rescue, Gatlinburg Fire Department, Gatlinburg Police Department, Haywood County Search and Rescue, Henderson County Rescue Squad and EMS, Jackson County Sheriff’s Office, Knox County Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Management, Knoxville-Knox County Emergency Management Agency, Maryville Police Department, North Carolina Emergency Management Agency, North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation, Northview Kodak Fire Department, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, Pigeon Forge Police Department, Sevier County Emergency Management Agency, Sevier County Volunteer Rescue Squad, Sevier County Sheriff’s Office, Sevierville Police Department, Southwest Virginia Mountain Rescue Group, Seymour Volunteer Fire Department, Smoky Mountain Nordic Ski Patrol, Smoky Mountain Search and Rescue Team, Swain County Emergency Management Agency, Swain County Rescue Squad, Swain County Sheriff’s Office, Tennessee Army National Guard, Tennessee Emergency Management Agency, Tennessee Highway Patrol, Tennessee Highway Patrol Rapid Response Team, Tennessee Search and Rescue Team, Tennessee State Parks, The Student Conservation Association, United States Forest Service Cherokee Hotshots, Walden’s Creek Volunteer Fire Department, as well as National Park Service personnel from Blue Ridge Parkway, Chickamauga & Chattanooga National Military Park, Shenandoah National Park, and the Investigative Services Branch. Body of Missing Woman Found
Great Smoky Mountains National Park officials announced last night that search crews found the body of Mitzie Sue “Susan” Clements, 53, from Cleves, Ohio, after an extensive, week-long search. Clements had been missing from the Clingmans Dome area of the park since Tuesday, September 25. A large-scale search operation was launched, which included trained searchers, canine teams, helicopters, and drones with advanced technology from around 50 local, state, and federal agencies and professional search and rescue groups.
Late yesterday afternoon, Clements' body was found off-trail, in a rugged, heavily wooded area of the Huggins Creek drainage, approximately two miles from Clingmans Dome parking area and three-fourths mile south of the Appalachian Trail. The cause of death is under investigation, however foul play is not suspected at this time.
“Our deepest condolences go out to the family, friends, and co-workers of Susan during this difficult time,” said park Superintendent Cassius Cash. “We are grieving with the family and hope that yesterday’s recovery helps provide some closure as they begin their own grieving process.” He added, “I am inspired by, and extremely grateful for, the tireless work of our park staff, as well as the generous assistance provided by dozens of agencies and well-trained search and rescue organizations.”
Clingmans Dome Road remains closed to allow staff time to remove the infrastructure brought in to help manage and support the search operation. The road and Clingmans Dome parking area are expected to reopen by tomorrow morning.
The family of Susan Clements provided this statement to share with the public:
“I want to specifically thank the National Park Service for their incredible efforts. The cooperation shown between more than 50 agencies was amazing, comforting, and very supportive. Every piece of the operation, including the scientific fronts, logistical parts, and the emotional support provided to us was very impressive. The children, her sisters, and I want to especially thank Jared St. Clair (Chief Ranger), Joe Pond (Incident Commander), James Latendresse (Operations Chief), and Florie Takaki (Family Liaison) for their dedication and support. We also want to thank the countless other people who helped look for Susan. This includes the ground searchers, pilots, drone operators, dog trackers, technicians, EMS providers, the many teams of tactical climbers and rescuers, and the Tennessee Emergency Management Agency. The kids, her sisters, and I greatly appreciate the intense work they performed for us, and we will be eternally grateful.”
An estimated 175 personnel assisted in the complex search operation of some of the most rugged terrain found in the park.
Cooperating organizations that assisted staff from Great Smoky Mountains National Park included: AmeriCorps, Backcountry Unit Search and Rescue, Black Diamond Search and Rescue, Blount County Rescue Squad, Blount County Special Operations Response Team, Blue and Gray Search and Rescue Dogs, Blue Ridge Mountain Rescue Group, Buncombe County Rescue Squad, Catons Chapel-Richardson Cove Volunteer Fire Department, Cherokee Indian Police Department, Cherokee Tribal EMS, Christian Aid Ministries Search and Rescue, Gatlinburg Fire Department, Gatlinburg Police Department, Haywood County Search and Rescue, Henderson County Rescue Squad and EMS, Jackson County Sheriff’s Office, Knox County Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Management, Knoxville-Knox County Emergency Management Agency, Maryville Police Department, North Carolina Emergency Management Agency, North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation, Northview Kodak Fire Department, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, Pigeon Forge Police Department, Sevier County Emergency Management Agency, Sevier County Volunteer Rescue Squad, Sevier County Sheriff’s Office, Sevierville Police Department, Southwest Virginia Mountain Rescue Group, Seymour Volunteer Fire Department, Smoky Mountain Nordic Ski Patrol, Smoky Mountain Search and Rescue Team, Swain County Emergency Management Agency, Swain County Rescue Squad, Swain County Sheriff’s Office, Tennessee Army National Guard, Tennessee Emergency Management Agency, Tennessee Highway Patrol, Tennessee Highway Patrol Rapid Response Team, Tennessee Search and Rescue Team, Tennessee State Parks, The Student Conservation Association, United States Forest Service Cherokee Hotshots, Walden’s Creek Volunteer Fire Department, as well as National Park Service personnel from Blue Ridge Parkway, Chickamauga & Chattanooga National Military Park, Shenandoah National Park, and the Investigative Services Branch.
IllabelleFound this picture in a google search. If she got as far as the Goshen Prong intersection and if it wasn't too dark to see the sign, she would have found that 1) she was going away from Clingman's Dome, and 2) shelter is a mere 0.6 miles away.
I hate to think what her state of mind must have been to willingly leave the broad well-marked well-traveled Appalachian Trail and plummet into the darkness of the woods. As MW alluded to, panic is a disabling condition.
Logically I agree with you, but who knows what is going through the mind of a tired, panicked hypothermic person. She may or may not have passed this sign. Possibly she may have panicked and gone back and forth on the AT before going off trail. So it could have been dark and foggy by that time.
On a clear week end there is usually a lot of foot traffic in that area. But this was a rainy Tuesday.
In an earlier post I recounted a day hiker who came into the clearing at Double Springs Shelter from that same direction. He had to have passed this sign but still wanted to know how much farther it was to Clingman's Dome. It was a clear day.
Maybe a $1 map and a $1 flashlight may have saved her life.
We may never know.
So tragic. My deepest symphonies to her friends and family. The daughter must be devastated. My heart goes out to her.
And thanks to all that worked so hard in the search.
perhaps something Wagnerian?
Well, this dayhiker wasnt prepared.
No map or idea of where other trails went
And hiking in cool damp weather in late afternoon
With no emergency gear or provisionsfor night out in mountains.
The number of people to die this way on dayhikes is sobering.
But, dehydration as well as low sugar can be especially bad for diabetics . My father in law , diabetic, died in a hotel room from cardiac arrest, brought on by dehydration.
Last edited by MuddyWaters; 10-03-2018 at 13:48.
I guess it's impossible to know exactly where and why she got off the trail. I agree she didn't go down the
I see where the turn in the AT is at the top of Loggy Ridge. The trail is going generally down hill from Clingmans to Double springs hut. If she missed the turn and continued in a generally straight but down hill direction it would put her in the Huggins drainage. This does sound like a very likely scenario.
It might not have taken long for her to realize she was no longer on a trail, but once you loose it, it's impossible to find again when tired, cold, hungry and at dusk. Which was obviously the case.
Follow slogoen on Instagram.
No map or idea of where other trails went
is that confirmed that she didnt have a map?
people with maps still can get lost.........
i havent seen anything that said what she had or didnt have with her.........
But, dehydration as well as low sugar can be especially bad for diabetics . My father in law , diabetic, died in a hotel room from cardiac arrest, brought on by dehydration.
yeah...
i think that's how my mom died as well this past june.....
its actually bugging the piss outta me (and driving me more nuts than i am already over this) about how she died.......
found on the floor of her house--------had cancer but i dont think the cancer killed her...........she had diabetes and im guessing the cancer was affecting the way she was eating or not eating-----and had a cardiac arrest due to the diabetes..... (and there was rotting fruit and vegetables on her counter when she was found)....
sadly, i will never know....
My father in law was on job out of town by himself
When couldnt reach him family called his work and they sent someone to check. Had just been working hard, not drinking enough fluids.
Dont know she didnt have map.
But not having a map, and being incapable of using one are same thing . Geraldine Largay had map and compass too.
If i gave my wife a map, all she could do with it is wipe her arse. She tells me when i give her directions someplace, " I dont know north and south, only left and right"
If she did, sounds like she didn't use it.
After illabelle pointed out that you can find pictures of the various trail intersection signs online, I found this image of the AT/Bypass intersection.
AT.png
This image almost makes it look like you have to run into the sign coming up the bypass trail.
If she had a map (and was willing to use it), she should have been able to figure out exactly where she was when she reached this sign.
{And of course this assumes my suggested sequence of events is correct and that the sign is still in place}
BTW: I've found another new story that lends additional credence to the idea she was likely travelling down hill while off trail:
https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/...ts/1497917002/"Most typical is that lost people will head downhill or toward water,"
Sorry for your loss... I know how that feels having lost my mom 12 years go.
Sort of a moot point at this point... but was there no autopsy, nothing that would had done a blood test that might have at least said what her blood sugar was like?
But then I guess an autopsy isn't normally performed if its highly suspected someone died of "natural" causes.
My father in law was on job out of town by himself
When couldnt reach him family called his work and they sent someone to check. Had just been working hard, not drinking enough fluids.
thats how it was with my mom-----nobody had heard from her in a day or so, so i called police to do a welfare check (cause i knew thats what police does) and called neighbor who was a volunteer firefighter....he was already out the door when i called as he heard it come across his radio...........and they found her on the floor.....
Dont know she didnt have map.
But not having a map, and being incapable of using one are same thing . Geraldine Largay had map and compass too.
thats the key----knowing how to read it and such....
while the dollar map is pretty generic (and to me, its actually one of the best maps of the Park)-----some people cant read and comprehend it...........and some people dont have a sense of direction....
sadly, my crew who is doing a follow up story today probably wont know to ask what she had on her...
i gave my guy some questions to ask but doubt he will (didnt tell him to ask about map though)....
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