Throw me your thoughts for Hanover North for Two Weeks

[tdoczi]

I knwo as good as anybody that on day 2 the plan is out the window. But i have spent some considerable time trying to write out a plan. Most here know i am aggressive for miles so i have tried to plan according but when the mileage teetered between super short or a little long i chose long. I am thinking that i may need to add a zero after the slack pack out of lincoln.
Also please keep in mind that my end result I am trying to be mindful of a 2020 compeltion given 2 weeks to hike in 2020. I know that not finishing in 2020 is realistic and that 1 more week may be needed in 2021 if i dont do that week in 2020.

heres what i think i would do

hanover to velvet rocks (i'm guessing youre getting to hanover at the end of the day

velvet rocks to firewardens (or camp somewhere short of there if you cant make it (regs anyone?), but thats doable. velvet rocks to trapper john youre going to get there at 2pm and sit around staring at the trees)

firewardens to glencliff. i'm guessing you dont want to say at the hostel. (camping regs around glencliff anyone?) itll be a day that starts quasi hard but the second half you'll think you're back in MD. even if you camp a mile or two short of firewardens the night before this is still doable. esp if you dont want to go to the hostel and camp a mile or two short of glencliff.

i guess the other thing is how you feel about camping potentially where there is no water to be found. i personally have no issue with it and do it all the time.

glencliff to eliza brook. this is going to be hard if you stop short of glencliff the day before. and youre going to deal with a gnarly section coming down moosilauke and then somewhat going back out of kinsman notch but once out of the notch its easy. and as ive mentioned before the climb up the glencliff side of moosilauke really isnt anything big.

next day is a tough call, i'd be tempted to do eliza brook to liberty spring and try to stop for a bit to resupply in lincoln without staying over. this could be avoided if you do whatever resupply you can in glencliff or send a box maybe.

liberty spring to guyot, maybe beyond if theres somewhere someone knows of to camp legally.

liberty spring to crawford notch (try for nauman maybe but that feels like a stretch)

crawford notch to lakes

lakes to pinkham (anywhere to camp? i think i'd just stay two nights at joe dodge and zero there myself. or go into gorham for a day off)

here i'm tempted to say if you took a day off try for pinkham to rattle river, but i really dont know how feasible that is, though there are people that do pinkham to rt 2 in a day. lets call it pinkham to the imp. itll be a short-ish day. after the imp the rest of the way to rattle river is mostly pretty easy though.

imp to rt 2 (you probably dont want to be back in town/hostel again so soon. how far in from the road do you have to be to camp near rt 2? i feel like the terrain is conducive to doing so)

rt 2 to carlo col. this is the one people are going to say i am crazy for suggesting, and maybe in lieu of the next day it isnt worth doing, but its doable. but lets just say to gentian pond. thats going to be a done at 2pm day though.

gentian pond to that place at the trail north end of the notch where everyone obviously camps (i assume its legal but who knows)

and then there to grafton notch.

thats 12 days if youre counting that first day as a day. 13 if you take a zero. by 2 weeks do you mean 14 days or does it include all 3 weekends (16 days)? by your itinerary i'm guessing 16 days

if so, then i dont know where to stay for the night in grafton notch, and my hike from there to rangely mostly involved walking until it was dark and camping wherever (for sure i remember one of them being on top of old blue) until you get to sabbath day pond shelter.

[Berserker]

I knwo as good as anybody that on day 2 the plan is out the window. But i have spent some considerable time trying to write out a plan. Most here know i am aggressive for miles so i have tried to plan according but when the mileage teetered between super short or a little long i chose long. I am thinking that i may need to add a zero after the slack pack out of lincoln.
Also please keep in mind that my end result I am trying to be mindful of a 2020 compeltion given 2 weeks to hike in 2020. I know that not finishing in 2020 is realistic and that 1 more week may be needed in 2021 if i dont do that week in 2020.

My only comment about your mileage is that's pretty aggressive. To give you a good comparison, you are planning on doing thru hiker mileage or possibly even beyond thru hiker mileage through that area. I tried this on my first foray into the Whites and actually kept up with a group of thrus for 4 days. Then I had to bail and take 2 days off because I had overdone it to the point where I thought I might have to just call it for the section. After 2 days I came up with an alternate plan to where I was able to at least get some more miles in before I had to go home. Original miles planned were 120ish and I ended up doing somewhere in the mid 70s.

Anyway, if you feel you are in shape to do that then go for it.

[Slo-go'en]

My comments interspersed in the quote

heres what i think i would do

hanover to velvet rocks (i'm guessing youre getting to hanover at the end of the day

velvet rocks to firewardens (or camp somewhere short of there if you cant make it (regs anyone?), but thats doable. velvet rocks to trapper john youre going to get there at 2pm and sit around staring at the trees

The trail between Velvets Rocks and Trapper John is pretty mucky. A lot of boggy, swampy trail. It was really primeval looking to me. The trail winds it's way around private land which is not practical to build on. If you look at the route on a map, it's a bit of a drunken cow path. Until you get past Moosilauke your on a narrow corridor crossing private land. The only camping opportunity between Trapper John and The Fire wardens cabin would be the parking lot at the base of Smart mountain. However there is an old garage about 3/4 of a mile up the fire wardens trail which could be used, and from the looks of it, often is. The climb up Smart mountain is a bit of a grunt, especially the last half mile where it gets good and steep and it would be at the end of a long day.
firewardens to glencliff. i'm guessing you dont want to say at the hostel. (camping regs around glencliff anyone?) itll be a day that starts quasi hard but the second half you'll think you're back in MD. even if you camp a mile or two short of firewardens the night before this is still doable. esp if you dont want to go to the hostel and camp a mile or two short of glencliff.

There is a shelter at the bottom of Moosiluke, not far from the road crossing to the hostel.

i guess the other thing is how you feel about camping potentially where there is no water to be found. i personally have no issue with it and do it all the time.

glencliff to eliza brook. this is going to be hard if you stop short of glencliff the day before. and youre going to deal with a gnarly section coming down moosilauke and then somewhat going back out of kinsman notch but once out of the notch its easy. and as ive mentioned before the climb up the glencliff side of moosilauke really isnt anything big.

next day is a tough call, i'd be tempted to do eliza brook to liberty spring and try to stop for a bit to resupply in lincoln without staying over. this could be avoided if you do whatever resupply you can in glencliff or send a box maybe.

liberty spring to guyot, maybe beyond if theres somewhere someone knows of to camp legally.

liberty spring to crawford notch (try for nauman maybe but that feels like a stretch)
That's a big stretch. Just getting to Guyot would beat the hell out of you.
crawford notch to lakes

lakes to pinkham (anywhere to camp? i think i'd just stay two nights at joe dodge and zero there myself. or go into gorham for a day off)

Only at the Osgood tent site, unless you drop down to one of the RMC camps or the Valley Way tent site.
here i'm tempted to say if you took a day off try for pinkham to rattle river, but i really dont know how feasible that is, though there are people that do pinkham to rt 2 in a day. lets call it pinkham to the imp. itll be a short-ish day. after the imp the rest of the way to rattle river is mostly pretty easy though

Pinkham to Imp is not an short-ish day.
imp to rt 2 (you probably dont want to be back in town/hostel again so soon. how far in from the road do you have to be to camp near rt 2? i feel like the terrain is conducive to doing so)

People camp near the road on the south side next to the river, but is definitely not legal. Once you cross the road and start up Mt Hayes, your committed until you reach the Trident col tent site.
rt 2 to carlo col. this is the one people are going to say i am crazy for suggesting, and maybe in lieu of the next day it isnt worth doing, but its doable. but lets just say to gentian pond. thats going to be a done at 2pm day though.

Unless you leave pretty early in the morning, your not going to get to Gentian pond by 2. BTW, the view down the Mt Washington valley from the shelter is one of the best views from a shelter on the AT. RT 2 to Carlo is a really big day. You have a bunch of mountains to go over and some crazy notches in between.
gentian pond to that place at the trail north end of the notch where everyone obviously camps (i assume its legal but who knows)w

That would be another crazy hard day. I've camped at the north end of the notch several times and you know me, I don't do illegal sites.
and then there to grafton notch

Good luck there too. You just beat Gambit up pretty good. I know he's reasonably young and a strong hiker, but still...
thats 12 days if youre counting that first day as a day. 13 if you take a zero. by 2 weeks do you mean 14 days or does it include all 3 weekends (16 days)? by your itinerary i'm guessing 16 days

if so, then i dont know where to stay for the night in grafton notch, and my hike from there to rangely mostly involved walking until it was dark and camping wherever (for sure i remember one of them being on top of old blue) until you get to sabbath day pond shelter

You could camp in the parking lot or go the 2.5 miles up to the Baldpate shelter. There's a bit of a flat section just before the parking lot which has potential, but you'd have to do some work to clear a spot.

[LittleRock]

I'm loving this thread! Going to bookmark it for when I get to the Whites probably 5-6 years from now.

I'll have to remember to scale back Gambit's mileage by about 30-40%. I averaged about 15 MPD in MD.

[tdoczi]

My comments interspersed in the quote

I'm not quoting all of that to make a corrections lol

for one, "liberty spring to crawford notch" was a typo. should have read guyot to crawford

second- how close is osgood to pinkham notch? is it close the way ethan pond is close to crawford notch or is it closer? i would think somewhere around pinkham notch thered be some place to legally camp (like with a mile or so of the lodge) but i could be wrong.

third- by pinkham to imp being short-ish i mean i think (i'll confess i've never done tried it) you'd be done by 4pm. thats earlier than i like to stop but theres probably nowhere to go. making rattle river could turn into a flailing around in the dark with headlamps affair if you try it.

fourth- direction might make some difference, but i didnt gentian pond to route 2 and it took me from a normal morning start until 2pm. RT 2 to carlo is what seems most thru hikers manage and they seem to do it pretty easily at that.

fifth- yeah gentian to the north end of the notch might be a stretch, again not something ive personally tried but piecing together my experience from different similar hikes i think i wouldnt have a problem trying it. could always stop at full goose or maybe theres another legal camping spot between them. i actually camped at the south end of the notch right off the trail (down the notch trail from the AT turning uphill) i doubt it was legal but it worked in a pinch. but the north end of the notch to grafton is easy once you get up the arm. old speck might be the easiest 4K summit in all of new england.

[Slo-go'en]

Second: There is no camping between Osgood and the Imp shelter. It might be possible to camp along the wildcat ridge, but that a big if.

It's 4.6 miles from Osgood to Pinkham and is reasonably easy, maybe 2 hours tops. The last couple of miles to Pinkham is on an old road which slabs the side of the hill. Remeber this is an exceptionaly high useage area.

All I can say is I have lived at the foot of Mt Adams for 30 years and hike this area a lot. I kind of know what I'm talking about.

[Lynnette]

Its a great time of year. People walk all over this state. They love their mountains. I think the bus will drop you off at the COOP in Hanover. And you camp and start in the woods behind the soccer field. Begin hiking slow, get in with the altitude and enjoy the way. Pay attention to water sources. We dug out several that others said were dry. But if you listen you can hear water under the rocks in places. The idea shouldnt be how many miles but you are in NH! Then ME! Some of the coolest geology and plants you will ever walk in. It even smells wonderful. Gorham bus will get you back to Logan. It looks like forever on a road map, but people do drive it to give you a ride thru ME and NH. And there are shuttles $$. You do need effective rain gear and dont skimp on your allowed 3 pairs of socks. I purchased the national geographic map which really gives a great display of where you are and what is around you. Have fun.

[tdoczi]

Second: There is no camping between Osgood and the Imp shelter. It might be possible to camp along the wildcat ridge, but that a big if.

It's 4.6 miles from Osgood to Pinkham and is reasonably easy, maybe 2 hours tops. The last couple of miles to Pinkham is on an old road which slabs the side of the hill. Remeber this is an exceptionaly high useage area.

All I can say is I have lived at the foot of Mt Adams for 30 years and hike this area a lot. I kind of know what I'm talking about.

well then i definitely advise staying at joe dodge or getting yourself into gorham. no matter how hard pinkham to imp is, osgood to imp will be harder. so if you stay at osgood, then whats the next day exactly?

its interesting what i've observed in this thread, the only time you call something easy is when someone else is saying something different. the easiest 4.6 miles one can imagine, when tagged on to 13 other miles, isnt so easy. i guess it goes to approach to hiking. if youre trying to plan full days squeezing on an extra couple of miles isnt in the cards. if you're taking a a lackadaisical approach where most days end early then it is.

and for sure you know tons. we also all pretty much know you hike slower thana good many of us. not a judgement, just an observation.

[Slo-go'en]

Well, we're just going to have to wait 6 months to find out if Gambit finds your optimistic time/distance is more accurate then my more pessimistic estimates. I just know the typical section hiker has a hard time achiving an average 1.5 mph pace through here. With camping options pretty much limited to designated sites, that limits what you can do in a day. Squeezing in those extra couple of miles at the end of the day isn't a good option in these parts.

[rickb]

well then i definitely advise staying at joe dodge or getting yourself into gorham. no matter how hard pinkham to imp is, osgood to imp will be harder.

Though some refuse to believe it (how can this be!) legal camping spots can be found on the AT/0ld Jackson road between Osgood and Pinkham — so long as you camp outside of the Cutler River Drainage and pay attention to your map and where roads, facilities and boundaries are.

[tdoczi]

Though some refuse to believe it (how can this be!) legal camping spots can be found on the AT/0ld Jackson road between Osgood and Pinkham — so long as you camp outside of the Cutler River Drainage and pay attention to your map and where roads, facilities and boundaries are.

i figured as much but mr "i've lived at the foot of mt adams since the days of the Davis family" didn't think so (i'm just teasing Slo')

,

[tdoczi]

Well, we're just going to have to wait 6 months to find out if Gambit finds your optimistic time/distance is more accurate then my more pessimistic estimates. I just know the typical section hiker has a hard time achiving an average 1.5 mph pace through here. With camping options pretty much limited to designated sites, that limits what you can do in a day. Squeezing in those extra couple of miles at the end of the day isn't a good option in these parts.

my serious prediction- if he tries to follow the itinerary he posted yesterday he will not stop at 2pm on the first full day at trapper john shelter (which, barring a crazy late start, is what time he'll get there)

at that point his planned itinerary is out the window and who knows what he'll end up doing.

[Slo-go'en]

Though some refuse to believe it (how can this be!) legal camping spots can be found on the AT/0ld Jackson road between Osgood and Pinkham — so long as you camp outside of the Cutler River Drainage and pay attention to your map and where roads, facilities and boundaries are.

Yea, but is it worth the effort to find such a place? Legal and practical are way too different things.

[tdoczi]

Yea, but is it worth the effort to find such a place? Legal and practical are way too different things.

if you arent just looking to ho-hum along, dont want to pay to stay at the lodge and realize that osgood to the imp isnt feasible then yes, it absolutely 100% is.

[4eyedbuzzard]

As Berserker and Slo-go-en noted, some of the mileage plans being discussed are pretty optimistic. They are more like what trail hardened thru-hikers might do after spending the last 3+ months hiking 1750 miles up and down the AT. Planning daily distances like the 17 miles from Glencliff to Eliza Brook, well, that's going to be a really tough day. Resupplying in Lincoln on the way to Liberty Springs will take several hours in the middle of another planned 12 mile day. And it will get dark quickly on the way up to Liberty Springs, and getting there late could well be another problem if it's already full. The AT in NH is one of the most unique and scenic trails anywhere in the whole world. Rushing through it just to log "X" number of AT miles and not scheduling enough time to enjoy it would seem to be a shame.

[Leapfrog^]

Enjoy, but curb your expectations once you hit the Mahoosucs. The Whites north of Pinkham Notch are no picnic either.

[tdoczi]

As Berserker and Slo-go-en noted, some of the mileage plans being discussed are pretty optimistic. They are more like what trail hardened thru-hikers might do after spending the last 3+ months hiking 1750 miles up and down the AT. Planning daily distances like the 17 miles from Glencliff to Eliza Brook, well, that's going to be a really tough day. Resupplying in Lincoln on the way to Liberty Springs will take several hours in the middle of another planned 12 mile day. And it will get dark quickly on the way up to Liberty Springs, and getting there late could well be another problem if it's already full. The AT in NH is one of the most unique and scenic trails anywhere in the whole world. Rushing through it just to log "X" number of AT miles and not scheduling enough time to enjoy it would seem to be a shame.

well for the record i think i would not resupply in lincoln.

glencliff to eliza brook is doable, no one is going to talk me out of it. and not just by super grizzly trail hardened thru hikers. its basically the same distance as kinsman notch to franconia notch and is, despite moosilauke's reputation, probably an easier hike.

i did glencliff to kinsman notch, then went to lost river, then went and hiked from franconia notch (from the flume parking lot to be exact) up to lonesome lake and back in one day. the next day i hiked kinsman ridge, taking the shorter way down from lonesome lake and stopping on that side of the notch. i would say i was at eliza brook by noon.

a 7am start from glencliff would get me to eliza brook by 5pm. i have little doubt of this. once i got rolling if things were going well and it was a nice day i'd dilly dally and finish at 6. now if walking for 10-11 hours isnt your cup of tea then ok, but it isnt hard to do if it is.

there are several other spots in the whites i wouldnt try this. i wouldnt try to do, for instance, franconia notch to guyot, and thats a shorter distance. I also have my doubts about anyone doing nauman to osgood (also shorter) in one day. moosilauke and the first half of kinsman just aren't that hard.

as for rushing, i probably sat on top of both moosilauke and south kinsman for 30-45 minutes each when i hiked them.

[Slo-go'en]

if you arent just looking to ho-hum along, dont want to pay to stay at the lodge and realize that osgood to the imp isnt feasible then yes, it absolutely 100% is.

It doesn't get you significantly closer and you have to trash around in the woods looking for a spot in an area where trashing around in the woods isn't so easy. And you'd probably have to do it in the dark.

[tdoczi]

It doesn't get you significantly closer and you have to trash around in the woods looking for a spot in an area where trashing around in the woods isn't so easy. And you'd probably have to do it in the dark.

i honestly can not rectify how the guy who wants to keep all days at around 10 miles per day can claim that 4.6 miles isnt significantly closer. by your figuring thats nearly half a days hike. on what plane of reality is half a day's hike not significant? 4.6 miles is either a long way or it isn't, pick one. stop trying to have it both ways.

[tdoczi]

It doesn't get you significantly closer and you have to trash around in the woods looking for a spot in an area where trashing around in the woods isn't so easy. And you'd probably have to do it in the dark.

i also still dont know what you would suggest doing the next morning when you got up and started out from osgood. you have 4.6 miles to pinkham notch or 18 to imp shelter. we both agree 18 to the imp shelter isnt happening, so we're back at where can you camp when you get to pinkham anyway.