When to use Permethrin.

[Wise Old Owl]

That's the ticket folks ... The label is the law, Ya have to follow the MSDS and the Label when applying any "cide" Ya have to read the instructions.

Corrales, had you read the instructions you would have known about the issue to cats. I am very sorry they got so sick, but when this product is wet - well now you now.

To be honest, had you read the label you would have done it outside on a non windy day instead you used it on or near kitchen food surfaces.

Here is a lot of good Q&A about the treatment
http://www.sawyer.com/permFAQ.html

[Odd Man Out]

... I don't like to use DEET because it seems to be a mild asthma trigger for me....

Have you checked out picaradin? It is a repellent as effective as DEET but reported to be much less irritating to the skin, odorless, and won't damage synthetic fabrics.

[Blue Sky II]

Right on! I've been using it since the late nineties and I'm still alive. I'll take permethrin over ticks and mosquitos any day. I dilute 'Tengard' (36%) with distilled water. As far as this stuff being toxic to humans .......it's toxic to head lice cause they use about the same percentage in shampoos.

[Wise Old Owl]

As kids on bicycles and didn't know any better we used to ride behind the fog of DDT and the mosquito truck. DDT's possible resistance, won't break down some 40 years. Every person who used DDT in the 40s - 70's never died of DDT.

I am thrilled to see Blue Sky's Post because millions of people die of Malaria, Yellow Fever, Encephalitis.. Hey I got thru that without spell check - ... and now West Nile. Surprise the young and old still DIE from Encephalitis here in the USA! IF you have kids and you are in the woods you better get motivated to get the Deep Woods OFF or Ultrathon on your kid. IF you are a person who enjoys baseball - most fields are on flat land surrounded by still water or a stream... you better reach for the chemicals. If you are on a golf course, that water trap with a broken fountain pump is a huge issue. Mosquitoes cannot reproduce on moving water! Get passionate and educated about your heath, and read more on the CDC sites. All these products carry a caution.. your toothpaste and underarm deodorant or the fact you drink water with chlorine or use a bar of soap (lye) is more dangerous.. but you live in a great country and you have a choice.

Here is the choice Encephalitis? or Ultrathon? Death or thousands to save a child or $7?


You Decide. No apologies. That's my view after years of college continuing ed and I stand by it. I am required to continue to learn and I LOVE MY DAMN JOB.

[The Ace]

As kids on bicycles and didn't know any better we used to ride behind the fog of DDT and the mosquito truck. DDT's possible resistance, won't break down some 40 years. Every person who used DDT in the 40s - 70's never died of DDT.

I used to do this when I was a kid. Great memories, and I have definitely made it intact to the “long-run.” It’s gravy from here on out. I spray clothing heavily and frequently with Sawyer Permethrin and it gets on my skin without any issues. (I would spray the family cat that my grown children left behind at home if I could get away with it). However, DEET gives me an itching skin rash worse than poison ivy and it goes right though my clothes. So, instead I carry a little Picaridin for arms and face when needed (rarely). The effect of the Picaridin wears off very fast though.

[Snowleopard]

Have you checked out picaradin? It is a repellent as effective as DEET but reported to be much less irritating to the skin, odorless, and won't damage synthetic fabrics.

Thanks for the suggestion. I haven't tried it, but just spent some time researching it. It is effective against mosquitoes, supposedly about the same as DEET at the same concentration (but available products have one third to half the concentration as Ultrathon).

The info on picaridin and ticks is questionable: I haven't found any reliable sources that say that it's effective against ticks and several reliable sources say it is NOT effective against ticks. I found no primary research on picaridin and ticks.

Someday when I'm feeling brave I'll sniff some picaridin to see if it affects my asthma. It would be nice to be able to wear a tee shirt instead of long sleeves when the mosquitoes are bad.

[DeerPath]

The only thing that I advise is that if using permethrin use it with extreme caution around pets in the home. I nearly killed my pet cats and the outcome was like $500 wasted in vet care and cats almost died. I'm no anti-chemical all natural type person or nothing like that,it is just is a very dangerous chemical to certain animals. cats, fish, some birds, and in high doses, even dogs will have seizures. A couple of drops can kill a cat or fish. my cats just got some on there hind paw while walking on the kitchen tile where I was applying to some gear and with in 12 hrs they were twitching and having seizures. If I would not have figured out it was the permethrin that did this and rushed to the vet they would have both died. They had to be hospitalized, get a anti seizure meds, iv flush, decontaminated, all because of minimal exposure. The animals can be exposed even days after the application because of the residue. I week after the cats came out of the hospital they still had to be isolated and stay locked in a room for a month for fear of recontamination. So point being get outside or somewhere far away from pets when dealing with Permethrin or Permethrin treated items. Not all Attachment 22304permethrin treated items or the actual bottles of permethrin warn of this danger but its very real. (my cat 2 weeks after with shaved legs due to the I.V.'S)

I purchase PERMETHRIN 10 from Tractor supply. Inside the instruction pages on page 2 it says "For Pet Use - Use Only On Dogs", on page 12 "(Do Not Use On Puppies Less Than 12 Weeks)".
It is imperative you completely read the instructions when using chemicals.
Sorry about you cat.

[Dogwood]

From the EPA: "In 1972, EPA issued a cancellation order for DDT based on adverse environmental effects of its use, such as those to wildlife, as well as DDT’s potential human health risks. Since then, studies have continued, and a causal relationship between DDT exposure and reproductive effects is suspected. Today, DDT is classified as a probable human carcinogen by U.S. and international authorities. This classification is based on animal studies in which some animals developed liver tumors.

DDT is known to be very persistent in the environment, will accumulate in fatty tissues, and can travel long distances in the upper atmosphere. Since the use of DDT was discontinued in the United States, its concentration in the environment and animals has decreased, but because of its persistence, residues of concern from historical use still remain."

[Dogwood]

While we need to carefully examine the use of insecticides for their possible benefits it is a FAR STRETCH to say NO ONE has died from DDT! Despite clearly stated uses and directions I still notice MANY folks incorrectly using insecticdes against directions.

[jeffmeh]

So where is the documented evidence of a human death caused by DDT? Again, the dosage makes the poison. Even granting that DDT was overused (though much of the Rachel Carson narrative has been discredited at this point), with a million deaths per year from malaria, the wholesale ban has led to many more deaths than one could possibly attribute to DDT.

[RockDoc]

For Maine AT in June-July I bought the strong stuff at Home Depot and soaked our outer clothes, rain gear, and even our tent.

I would do it again. It was EXCELLENT.

We met hikers in all long clothes with high gaitors and parka hoods buttoned up tight (in how weather; miserable), who were in clouds of mosquitos while we wore SHORTS and TEE SHIRTS and had little or no problem.

That was in 2007. We've had no long term issues from our use of permetherin, but you must make your own decisions.

[Wise Old Owl]

From the EPA: "In 1972, EPA issued a cancellation order for DDT based on adverse environmental effects of its use, such as those to wildlife, as well as DDT’s potential human health risks. Since then, studies have continued, and a causal relationship between DDT exposure and reproductive effects is suspected. Today, DDT is classified as a probable human carcinogen by U.S. and international authorities. This classification is based on animal studies in which some animals developed liver tumors.

DDT is known to be very persistent in the environment, will accumulate in fatty tissues, and can travel long distances in the upper atmosphere. Since the use of DDT was discontinued in the United States, its concentration in the environment and animals has decreased, but because of its persistence, residues of concern from historical use still remain."

Dogwood quoting from the internet is your decision.. DDT is still used in many countries. The banning of DDT was a political decision for the US government & corporations to sell more exspensive product and is not based in science. Since the ban Rachel Carson single handed killed more african children than any other woman on the planet in terms of millions of children, with her work of fiction. Always keep in mind that there are two sides to every rhetoric.

[Wise Old Owl]

While we need to carefully examine the use of insecticides for their possible benefits it is a FAR STRETCH to say NO ONE has died from DDT! Despite clearly stated uses and directions I still notice MANY folks incorrectly using insecticdes against directions.

There is little or no evidence that anyone "human" has died of DDT 100,000's have died of Tylenol get a grip.

[TIDE-HSV]

When ever I want to know the skinny on a product, I always consult the MSDS's (Material Safety Data Sheet)

http://www.cdms.net/ldat/mp7GD012.pdf

I notice this sheet is dated on the method of CPR recommended. Most safety organizations now recommend chest compression only. One study showed that compressions only increased survival chances by 60%. Here is a WebMd link. LINK

[rocketsocks]

I notice this sheet is dated on the method of CPR recommended. Most safety organizations now recommend chest compression only. One study showed that compressions only increased survival chances by 60%. Here is a WebMd link. LINK

I thought the purpose of compressions was to move "oxygenated blood"...if the returning blood does not come in contact with oxygen via the lungs...then how is that helpful?

I can see if this is just to keep a heart beating...and the person is breathing on there own, but I still don't get the transfer of oxygen thing...definitely requires some looking into....Good find TIDE-HSV I've never heard of this before.

[MuddyWaters]

When ever I want to know the skinny on a product, I always consult the MSDS's (Material Safety Data Sheet)

http://www.cdms.net/ldat/mp7GD012.pdf

Not always a real good idea.

If you consult the MSDS for sodium chloride, you will be wearing a tyvek suit and rubber boots to handle it. You would also not be willing to put it on your food.

Common sense must also be used.

EVERYTHING is a poison to you. The only differences are the quantity required.

Even too much oxygen, or water, will kill you.

[rocketsocks]

I notice this sheet is dated on the method of CPR recommended. Most safety organizations now recommend chest compression only. One study showed that compressions only increased survival chances by 60%. Here is a WebMd link. LINK

Oops tried to link post but it wont post.

http://www.cdms.net/ldat/mp7GD012.pdf


under first aid if in-haled it say's to give person artificial respiration preferably by mouth to mouth...so I guess I'm missing something here???

where are you seeing the part about chest compression only on the MSDS? or are you just referring to the web MD article?

[rocketsocks]

Not always a real good idea.

If you consult the MSDS for sodium chloride, you will be wearing a tyvek suit and rubber boots to handle it. You would also not be willing to put it on your food.

Common sense must also be used.

EVERYTHING is a poison to you. The only differences are the quantity required.

Even too much oxygen, or water, will kill you.

I here what your saying...and in my best thinking a person that even knows what a MSDS is and can read and make sense of the information given is like a competent person, and could be trusted spraying there clothes....than again, there are the 1% group that should just sit on the couch and eat oatmeal thru a straw and watch Capt. Kangaroo oh yes! they're out there.

[TIDE-HSV]

Oops tried to link post but it wont post.

http://www.cdms.net/ldat/mp7GD012.pdf


under first aid if in-haled it say's to give person artificial respiration preferably by mouth to mouth...so I guess I'm missing something here???

where are you seeing the part about chest compression only on the MSDS? or are you just referring to the web MD article?

If you do a search, you'll turn up a good bit of material on it. I think it's pretty much a universal recommendation now. I think the theory behind it is that the time taken out for mouth to mouth is wasting time that could be used to continue compressions and keep blood flowing to the brain. The ratio O/CO2 is pretty much immaterial because it's not a long term solution, anyway. The victim's blood has plenty of oxygen for the length of time compressions will be used. Here is the Red Cross page on the technique: LINK I was once present at a drowning in the Five Falls area of the Chatooga. Two of the raft guides gave her CPR all the way across Lake Tugaloo, where an ambulance was waiting. I paddled up to the raft in my kayak and told them that there was no use in continuing and that her survival chances were zero, but they couldn't bring themselves to quit...

[rocketsocks]

If you do a search, you'll turn up a good bit of material on it. I think it's pretty much a universal recommendation now. I think the theory behind it is that the time taken out for mouth to mouth is wasting time that could be used to continue compressions and keep blood flowing to the brain. The ratio O/CO2 is pretty much immaterial because it's not a long term solution, anyway. The victim's blood has plenty of oxygen for the length of time compressions will be used. Here is the Red Cross page on the technique: LINK I was once present at a drowning in the Five Falls area of the Chatooga. Two of the raft guides gave her CPR all the way across Lake Tugaloo, where an ambulance was waiting. I paddled up to the raft in my kayak and told them that there was no use in continuing and that her survival chances were zero, but they couldn't bring themselves to quit...

Yeah I've never heard this before...will check out the link, thanks TIDE-HSV