New kind of Trail Magic

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

There's a reason the missionaries often got strung up and gutted by the natives...

And now you know what the cables strung between the trees are really for!

Must resist going into photoshop with this on my mind....

[MOWGLI]

I hiked with Craig and Suzy Miles a little. Not much. But I first met them at the '05 Trail Days. They had a trailer with free showers set up across from L Wolf's house. They were also at the SoRuck this past January. Slept in their truck if I recall correctly.

Very nice people. We never talked about religion, just hiking. I have been around people who talk about it a lot, and I usually just murmur politely (never argue), but as I say, Craig and Suzy and I just talked hiking and gear.

Thanks for the post Frosty. Maybe that'll help some folks refrain from kneejerk reactions.

[MOWGLI]

Well, I'd be surprised if they did it without a permit. Certainly you're not suggesting any org be able to set up as they please. I can see why the ATC addressed the issue recently at the Gathering.

Of course I'm not. And I agree, That sort of activity should not take place on the trail IMO.

I missed the event, but several hikers skipped ahead to be there for the "goody bags" that were given out by EMS. Hungry Howie went - I think. Maybe Teej will chime in. Profile? Almanac? Remember this?

[Glenn]

Did anyone meet their 2006 "Trail Chaplains" Brett(Social) and Bronwyn(Dadelion)? I've met Craig and Suzy. Christians are suppose to preach everywhere. Thay're just doing their "job". They will be doing less trail magic next year but still sponsering a "trail chaplains". I do trail magic at Unicoi but have never mentioned my beliefs. I just push food and take your trash. Would you be offended if you saw bibles for free beside the sodas and chips?

[Heater]

Wrong. It's only rude if you are subjected to it against your will.

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!!! WARNING WILL ROBINSON!

You are wrong. Whaddya want us to do, skip breakfast because YOU cannot resist the urge to argue religion or politics or whatever else it is YOU feel the need to blather on about at our breakfast table?!! It is rude.

As I said, so long as you are polite about it, I am willing to discuss with you whatever interesting topic you care to bring up, your job, hobbies, musical preferences,

OK

religion, politcs,

Not OK. You and your partner should grab your plate and leave the table, Go elsewhere when discussing those issues.

whatever. It's how I learn about stuff. If I'm not in a mood for debate and/or conversation I'll keep to myslef, and if you press me I'll let you know. If, after that, you persist in a rude or annoying fashion, then you'd be in the wrong regardless of what topic you're on about. I know how to deal with that, too.

Yeah, and you should keep it to yourself and if you persist and "press me" I will let YOU know!

..and nobody wants to start their day with that kind of ugliness at the Breakfast table.

Please refrain from being an ASSHAT at the table.

[Skyline]

Did anyone meet their 2006 "Trail Chaplains" Brett(Social) and Bronwyn(Dadelion)? I've met Craig and Suzy. Christians are suppose to preach everywhere. Thay're just doing their "job". They will be doing less trail magic next year but still sponsering a "trail chaplains". I do trail magic at Unicoi but have never mentioned my beliefs. I just push food and take your trash. Would you be offended if you saw bibles for free beside the sodas and chips?

A Bible, no. Some of the other religiously-inspired hate literature, definitely. Sounds like you wouldn't be displaying the latter, so we'd all get along fabulously. And I'd be sure to say thank you for the TM.

[Ender]

Must resist going into photoshop with this on my mind....

Resistance is futile.

[Blissful]

Nope, I never heard of any outfitter, hostel or restaurant setting up on the trail. Have an example?

Doesn't the AT go right through the outfitter's store or something at Neel's Gap? I thought it was known for the only place where the AT goes through a building. (?)

Right now I'd like to take a commercial break -

I can't believe next week is Thanksgiving - and wow it won't be long before New Years 2007 and then my thru hike!!! I'm in shock how quickly the time is slipping by. It's been 30 years in the making. Hope I'm ready.

[Webs]

Would you be offended if you saw bibles for free beside the sodas and chips?

IMO, people can get way too obsessive about offending people....with something as important as religion, people are and should be passionate enough to state the truth even when it has teh potential to hurt someone's feelings. Right and wrong are not relative terms that can be modified to fit someone's feelings. Of course, gentleness is a virtue that is always appreciated in a situation such as this, but cannot replace teh truth.....i hope i'm not being completely incoherent

[Jack Tarlin]

The Trail goes thru an archway and thru the building at Neel Gap, tho it technically doesn't go "thru the store."

While there are all sorts of tunnels and underpasses that the Trail goes thru, this is indeed the only building that the Trail goes thru.

[Lone Wolf]

Who's truth?

[MOWGLI]

Who's truth?

That is the crux of the issue, isn't it?

[Ender]

IMO, people can get way too obsessive about offending people....with something as important as religion, people are and should be passionate enough to state the truth even when it has teh potential to hurt someone's feelings. Right and wrong are not relative terms that can be modified to fit someone's feelings. Of course, gentleness is a virtue that is always appreciated in a situation such as this, but cannot replace teh truth.....i hope i'm not being completely incoherent

Except for the fact that it's not the "truth" to a whole lot of people, and is in fact anything but the "truth". Truth, when it comes to religion, is an extremely subjective idea, and most of us would rather not be subjected to another's idea of "truth". Who's "truth" is truthier?? The Christians? The Muslims? Judaism? Janism? Buddism? Hinduism? Shinto? Zorostrianism? Rastafarian? Mormonism? Christian Scientists? Paganism?

Well, you get my point. It may be your "truth", but it sure as **** isn't everyone's "truth", which of course means it isn't actually truth at all...

(Props to Steven Colbert for "truthier")

[RockyTrail]

Doesn't the AT go right through the outfitter's store or something at Neel's Gap? I thought it was known for the only place where the AT goes through a building. (?)

Blissful, you're absolutely right, the AT goes through a portion of the building at Neels Gap that houses Mountain Crossings outfitters. There are plenty of businesses along the trail that "use" that trail for customers; vans park at road crossings to recruit motel customers, shuttlers and slackpacking services load and unload, etc.. I'm not being critical of these folks, in fact I support them and am glad to see them. But the assertion that this couple is doing something wrong through "use" of the trail doesn't hold water in my humble opinion. If they're law-abiding, then how are they different than anyone else?

I think it's wrong to pick on this particular couple (presumably) just because of their beliefs. Too many of our countrymen have died to establish and keep that freedom. Live and let live. Peace.

[weary]

....Yeah, and you should keep it (religion, politcs) to yourself and if you persist and "press me" I will let YOU know!

..and nobody wants to start their day with that kind of ugliness at the Breakfast table.

Please refrain from being an ASSHAT .

It's hard to imagine a sillier post. Virtually all long distant trails are on public land, that means they are part of the DEmocratic process -- a part of politics. Political discussion is how trail and other issues are debated, understood, and eventually decided.

The opposite of political discussion is government by fiat, by dictatorship -- or at the very least, decisions from ignorance.

Weary

[Webs]

Except for the fact that it's not the "truth" to a whole lot of people, and is in fact anything but the "truth". Truth, when it comes to religion, is an extremely subjective idea, and most of us would rather not be subjected to another's idea of "truth". Who's "truth" is truthier?? The Christians? The Muslims? Judaism? Janism? Buddism? Hinduism? Shinto? Zorostrianism? Rastafarian? Mormonism? Christian Scientists? Paganism?

Well, you get my point. It may be your "truth", but it sure as **** isn't everyone's "truth", which of course means it isn't actually truth at all...

(Props to Steven Colbert for "truthier")

as a christian, i believe that Jesus is teh only way to get to Heaven. Of course, i don't expect non-christians to agree with me (otherwise, they'd be christians too). but at the same time, you have to admit that no two opposing beliefs can both be right--(at least) one must be wrong; that's just reality. which brings up something i was thinking about: the confusion of the words "truth" and "belief"; just b/c you believe something doesn't make it true....

not to be pessimistic, but i suppose that, ultimately, only death can bring us all into agreement about the truth of everything--then we'll all know for sure what's right!

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

I've developed a standard reply when people start asking overly personal questions on the Trail, and this includes religious ones.

I smile, look the person in the eye, and say "I make it a practice not to discuss personal matters in public, and never with strangers. I'm sure you'll understand and respect this."

If they persist in their questions about my private life, income, the state of my soul, etc., I'll tell them, without a smile, "Obviously you either misunderstood me, or don't respect my feelings on this. These aren't matters I wish to discuss."

If they STILL persist, then they're obviously inconsiderate schmucks and one is no longer required to treat them with any courtesy whatsoever. I either ignore them, turn my back on them and speak to someone else, or take myself elsewhere.

Three strikes and you're OUT.

This is an excellent post IMO.

While I have no problem with people offering food, drink and {insert message here} as a package, I have a real problem with anyone who persist after someone has told them twice to knock it off. The third time they must be told... well, all bets are off... the lone Wolf method is acceptable at that point.

Several have mentioned the distribution of written material by those giving out trail magic. Perhaps the missionaries need to be contacted by ATC or local maintainers and the concept of LNT and the potential litter problem the literature creates need to be addressed.

Finally, some have mentioned people doing mission work on public lands as a potential problem. I personally hope America never gets so darned politically correct that people can't express their religious beliefs and share them with passing strangers in public.

[woodsy]

The AT is meant for hiking, exploring, enjoying nature, challenging oneself and the list goes on and on as far as hiking your own hike goes. I have never heard of people hitting the trail for the purpose of being saved by preachers who offer food,drink and bibles.
Churches were built for preaching for those who wanted to attend. The AT in no way resembles a church. IMO

[weary]

as a christian, i believe that Jesus is teh only way to get to Heaven. Of course, i don't expect non-christians to agree with me (otherwise, they'd be christians too). but at the same time, you have to admit that no two opposing beliefs can both be right--(at least) one must be wrong; that's just reality. which brings up something i was thinking about: the confusion of the words "truth" and "belief"; just b/c you believe something doesn't make it true....

not to be pessimistic, but i suppose that, ultimately, only death can bring us all into agreement about the truth of everything--then we'll all know for sure what's right!

Well, there is the possibility, as I suspect, that death ends all consciousness for all of us, and thus we will never "know" anything again.

I also suspect that if there is a heaven, you will find a lot more than "Christians" there -- including folks like me. Afterall, your God is all knowing, all forgiving, and all good. Surely, he won't restrict heaven to those who believe in a religion that once burned people at the stake for not believing in its myths.

Weary

[Singe03]

The opposite of political discussion is government by fiat

Nah, that would mean our government is stalled out on the side of the road needing expensive parts and major repairs by people with specific trainin... erm wait, nevermind...