Sleeping with food

[blw2]

Reading the other currently running thread about hanging food brings another question to my mind....
not about bears, but rodents and such.....

To those of you that sleep with your food, or leave food bags, or even just your backpack with food in it...either in your tent or vestibule...

how many times have you ever had a rodent or any other critters such as possum or coon chew their way in, or try to ....through a tent, backpack, or food bag?....
or how many times have you seen it happen to others first hand?...
and what were the circumstances? (at developed shelter or camp site or not, etc...)

I'm not so interested in having heard from somebody's cousin's sister about some alleged incident that might have happened.... but more about things that you actually experienced or saw.

Personally...I have not backpacked all that much. Mostly front country type camping, tents and later in a tent trailer....state park campgrounds and the like, and some time in dispersed type camp site areas in a Boy Scout reservation. I've seen plenty of times when something during the night has gotten into a carelessly left trash bag. I remember I think twice when something got into a cooler left outside during the night
But
knock on wood I have never seen anything chew through a tent to get at food... Guess the closest would be on youtube someone showing a pocket on a pack that he stepped a few feet away from during the day at some overlook and some chipmunk or marmot or something chewed through his hipbelt pocket to get at a snack....

[KDogg]

The only time I slept with my food was in the 100 mile. Those damn red squirrels in Maine are aggressive as hell. If you leave anything outside of the tent proper they will try and get it. We had a hung food bag torn into and a pack torn into that was stored in a tent vestibule. I even heard stories about them tearing into the tent to get at food. Hanging your food bag is a pain at first but you get used to it. We hiked in a group of three and two of us would work together to hang bags every night.

[moldy]

I do not like the mice and rats...Not in a tent...not in a pack...not in a sack...I do not like the mice and rats......After 10 years and 2500 miles, I don't hang my food unless I'm in actual bear country. So for most of the AT I slept with my food bag in my backpack in my tent and have never had such an ambitious rodent.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I slept with my food for years without issue, although I used common sense such as utilizing cables and bear boxes when available and keeping an eye on reported bear issues prior to hiking in various areas (I wouldn't sleep with my food in an area with a problem bear).
The reason I stopped doing this is that properly sleeping with your food entails keeping it in your direct possession at all times and it's a pain in the ass. It means that I had to keep my food next to me or watched by someone else at all times; my food came with me when setting up my tent; when walking out to get water, when getting up to answer natures call at night etc. It ended up being far more work than other methods. Also, as far as I'm concerned, food stored in a tent vestibule does not qualify as being in one's possession, it's still far enough away for critters to take a chance with it.

This year I gave a canister a try and it's surprisingly convenient and is by far the laziest method of food storage I've found yet. To me it's well worth the extra 2lbs, especially since my pack is still under 25lbs with it.

[evyck da fleet]

I stopped hanging after NC. As with others I used poles, cables, boxes etc when provided and avoided camping in areas with bear activity once I stopped hanging. I’ve had mice chew through the mesh hip pockets in shelters if zipped and a food bag was chewed through in a cabin when I left it next to me. Never had a problem with food in my tent. I second that food in the vestibule is not in my possession.

[HooKooDooKu]

This year I gave a canister a try and it's surprisingly convenient and is by far the laziest method of food storage I've found yet. To me it's well worth the extra 2lbs, especially since my pack is still under 25lbs with it.

Reading the 1st half of your post brought these exact same thoughts to me...

I used a Bearikade for my JMT thru, and it was EXTREAMLY convenient to use. So long as you always remembered to close it, you never had to give your food a second thought.

[nsherry61]

I've only ever had animal problems in areas where there has been significant camping in the past and when the food was outside my shelter.

Animals are significantly more aggressive toward my food in areas where they have had regular opportunities to eat people food in the past than when I camp in areas that are otherwise pristine.
And, I have never had any animal get into my food inside my tent or tarp when I was sleeping with it. I have never had any damage to my backpack or tent when my backpack was on me or I was in my tent.

I have either seen or experienced both backpacks chewed through to get to food while people were within a couple steps of the backpacks and tents chewed through when there was nobody in them, but people were absolutely near the tent fixing dinner or fires or whatnot.

I have had animals get into my food in my tent vestibule while I was in the tent. Vestibules are NOT nearly as animal safe as food fully inside a tent with you next to it.

[FrogLevel]

I slept with my food for years with no problems....then a bear woke me up after politely knocking on my tent door in the middle of the night. I did all I could to get him to leave (yelling, throwing rocks, etc) but it wasn't having it and after it started behaving aggressively, snorting and charging I left. Hours later I returned to a demolished tent and a missing food bag. I was alone and it was terrifying. I now hang my food without exception. This was in Tennessee.

[Mike Steger]

slept with my food in tent for about 30 nights on the AT with no problems at all.....have seen others get backpacks chewed at shelters from mice at night

[saltysack]

I slept with my food for years with no problems....then a bear woke me up after politely knocking on my tent door in the middle of the night. I did all I could to get him to leave (yelling, throwing rocks, etc) but it wasn't having it and after it started behaving aggressively, snorting and charging I left. Hours later I returned to a demolished tent and a missing food bag. I was alone and it was terrifying. I now hang my food without exception. This was in Tennessee.

I hope you packed a spare pair of undies....


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[D2maine]

*snip*

This year I gave a canister a try and it's surprisingly convenient and is by far the laziest method of food storage I've found yet. To me it's well worth the extra 2lbs, especially since my pack is still under 25lbs with it.

I am this |<->| close to going this route - it also makes a great chair...

[fiddlehead]

I've slept with my food on most all nights that i use my tarp tent (6 thru-hikes)
I think 2 times that I remember, a mouse chewed a hole in my food bag (or tried to) while I was in there.
Now, if I leave my pack unattended while going for water or a latrine break, I've had chipmunks and mice eat a hole in pockets that held snacks already.
But, never anything bigger than a mouse came into my tarptent while I was in there with my food.
(So far)

This past summer, we were hiking in Croatia and there are a lot of European brown bears and I slept with my food every night.
One night, we were camping near the only spring around and my hiking partners hung their food (it was fun to watch as it took them quite a long time)
In the middle of the night, strange sounds were going on, that could have been a bear. We never found out.
But I must admit I was a bit scared as I have no experience with this type of bear that looks just like a grizzly (hump and all)

anyway, good luck to you.
I hear the bears might be more aggressive on the AT now than back when I hiked it: '77,'89,'91,95, 2001.
I did have a scare on the CDT one year, but it turned out to be a marmot (I had my food in a pile of rocks, but after the scare, I brought it in my tarptent and slept with it the rest of the night (There was a gift in there that I really wanted to eat the next day)

[saltysack]

I’ve always slept with mine inside a tent, tarp or shelter if no bear box or cables around without issue. I only sleep in shelters when they’re empty. Disclaimer....always hike with a dog. Few years ago on FHT did have a mouse chew though my ziplock trash bag I left in the vestibule of solong6. Mouse didn’t chew through the tent but my dog nearly ripped through trying to catch that dam mouse. My cousin had a mouse chew through his brand new tarp tent last winter in NC. He didn’t have a dog and was sleeping with food. With that said I would always hang if I didn’t hike with my dog. I worry about those bastards chewing my pack so always make sure all pockets are fully opened....


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[soilman]

I hang my food probably 99% of the time. I have had rodent problems twice that I can remember. Once I tented about a half mile north of Vandeventer shelter and woke up twice during the night because two mice had somehow got into my TT Contrail. I found the first one clinging to the back end bug net. I got rid of it and woke up later with a mouse on top of my bag. I don't know how many regular opportunities they had to go after hikers food at this site. It's not like it was in close proximity to a shelter. Once in New England somewhere, I don't remember where, I was stealth tenting. I had my pack outside my tent. I woke up the next morning and some rodent, chipmunk, squirrel, mouse, I don't know, gnawed on the top of my pack even though there was no food in it.

[Dogwood]

The answers depend on where and when you are referring to camping and hiking.


First, you are right, as is Justin "Trauma" Lichter, when he said(paraphrased) in a Backpacking issue, "large animals like bears get most of the ink when it comes to protecting food but it more often is the smaller animals like rodents one should be more concerned."


For the AT, when in camp for the night, I've personally had chipmunks(near sunset/twilight hrs), mice and rats chew through a tent wall. I've had and seen rodents like chipmunks, squirrels, mice and rats chew threw food bags made of silny, eVent and Dyneema Composite kept outside and inside a fully enclosed tent. I've personally, and on several other occasions, witnessed others have their closed food sacks eaten through while hanging 15-20 ft high on bear cables and while bear bagging. These were rodents(maybe the rare Flying Squrrel that hunts at night) or maybe bats?, an owl?, Chupacabra, Jersey Devil, or Spiderman etc. in the middle of the night. These accounts almost always mimic Nsherry's comments, "I've only ever had animal problems in areas where there has been significant camping in the past...Animals are significantly more aggressive toward my food in areas where they have had regular opportunities to eat people food in the past than when I camp in areas that are otherwise pristine." IMO after visiting and backcountry camping in almost 50 different National Parks and having well over 400 nights on the AT beaten down AT and NP campsites are some of the worst offenders for aggressive wildlife...due to human behaviors. And, these past food experiences were in large part contributed to/or created by MYSELF from past food safety ignorance.

Salt is rare in the natural world to find for much wildlife. Hence, larger rodents especially porcupines and to some extent raccoons, etc crave sodium. They will eat through or scurry away with sweaty gear such as clothing, socks, shoes, bandannas, etc. I had a deer steal my sweat soaked bandanna not more than 50 ft away at sunset on the PCT at a spring. I eventually got it back though by getting the deer to drop the sweaty chewed up bandanna by trading it for some apple slices.

[garlic08]

I once had a couple of food containers ruined by ravens. Another time my backpack was ruined by an ermine going after my food. Both times those I was within sight of the food, doing camp chores. Lesson finally learned--never turn your back on your unprotected food, even 'just a sec.'

I was camping with a friend who kept his food in his tent and a mouse chewed into the silnylon tarptent during the night while he was sleeping. It woke him up when it tried to eat his cookies. A bit of cussing ensued. This was in WA on the PCT, at a fairly well-used backcountry site.

Ditto the salt. I've lost socks, boot tongues, gloves, and pole straps to the larger mammals.

[Coffee]

I have slept with my food in certain locations where there is no law or regulation specifying required food storage methods. On the AT sections I've hiked, this has primarily been due to laziness since usually reasonable trees are around. On the Foothills trail, I slept with food once on a very cold night. The most I've slept with food was the PCT in Southern California. Also several nights above treeline on the Colorado Trail. Never had any issues with bears or rodents. I've always used an aloksak bag inside a zpacks blast food bag so maybe that helped. In the high Sierra I used a Bearikade which is terrific and easy to use but at two pounds I won't carry it on thru hikes where not required. I have used the Bearikade on quick overnights when I don't care so much about a couple of pounds due to an already light pack and don't want to bother hanging and sleeping with food isn't strictly permitted. I've used the canister for this reason on several occasions in SNP which has a high bear population and requires proper food storage.

[martinb]

Depends on the location/situation. In GSMNP, I hang everything (including pack) due to bears and pack-holing meece. In national forests I sometimes sleep with the food bag if a decent hang isn't available. If I'm staying at a well-established CS, I'm more likely to hang because there will be a dedicated population of mice/rats zeroing in on your pack/food bag. I've never had a coon or possum come in the tent looking for food..

[Glogg]

On the AT in 2012 during a heavy evening rainstorm I cooked dinner in my vestibule, and fell asleep with my dirty pot inside the tent.

I was awakened by a mouse that chewed its way into my tent looking for dinner. I slammed the lid on the pot, and chucked it outside. Still have the patched mesh on my tent inner.

Also have some scars on my pole grips from a rabbit going after the salt from my sweat. Don’t drop your poles in tall grass, plant or lean them.

[QiWiz]

When I have forgotten to remove snacks from pack pockets have had rodents (probably mice) chew through the pocket to get to the food. At least two personal experiences of this. Same with (once) forgetting a snack in tent to find a hole chewed in netting to get to it. Have also watched a marmot climb into my pack looking for food. All food in this case was in my bear canister. No luck for marmot, nothing chewed, he/she climbed out with no damage. If varmints are around, and they can smell food, they will go for it IMO.