Try these. Messed up the first attempts to upload.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/...mageuser=10968
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/...mageuser=10968
"For me, it is better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
Carl Sagan