Whiteblaze - the next step

[max patch]

I sure would love to know what the "special" and "unique" WB was.

It wasn't. Just a forum.

And while WB can be a good source of information if you can filter past all the crap, in the very early days of the site most of thru hiking questions were answered by people who had not thru hiked. Neither of the 2 thru hiking mods had done a thru. A lot of just plain bad info was given out. The site is much improved now with the number of thru hikers that have joined and participate.

[The Weasel]

I sure would love to know what the "special" and "unique" WB was. I have spent time on many a forum, mostly cars/food/DIY types. I have yet to find a forum that is "unique" in any way. All the ones I have been on are just social networks comprised of people who have a common intrest. Just like this one. There are always chit-chat non-sense threads, serious threads, hate threads (that usually get closed or deleted) and then bitching threads, all mixed in with little tid bits of the topic that binds all the members. So please, and I am serious here, tell me what was different about WB.

I'll try, Chef, since that's a fair question as you present it. Others may have different viewpoints.

In 2002, a number of us felt that Dan Bruce had become extremely rigid in making TrailPlace a combination of (a) trail information (if it agreed with Dan's point of view) and (b) viewpoints on trail issues that were only acceptable if they were in pretty full agreement with Dan's point of view. As a result, there were a large number of deletions from people who had honest differences of opinion with Dan and each other. On more than a few occasions, people were banned from TrailPlace for varying lengths of time, or "counseled" as Jack Tarlin recalls occurring with him that he could post what he wanted as long as it was edited by Dan. (Here, that's called being on "moderated status"). A number of us felt that wasn't how a great site should be. So WB was started by "Easy" who, several months later, gave the site to ATTroll and Sgt Rock. I was involved in much of that, so I recall it well.

The goal here was to have a site where people could speak their mind about any topic related to the AT and backpacking, as long as it did not become personally offensive or profane. That meant, for instance, that LW could let people know he thought shelters were a bad idea, and others could tell him they thought he was dead wrong. It also got into what were considered "small p" political issues, relating to the environment as it affects the AT, in which conservative viewpoints were welcome as well as liberal ones like Dan's were (and which were the ONLY ones really allowed on TP). Discussions were free-wheeling, sometimes with strong opinions, but rarely with personal antagonism showing. Threads were allowed to continue, including with continental-sized thread drift, until they died of their own weight (if they died). You learned a lot not just about facts, but feelings and attitudes towards the Trail, including ones that differed from your own.

Things got way out of hand as Capital P politics forums were added, which got heated, a few years later. (2005, I think.) That led to a lot of vitriolic hostility on the part of many of us that was unfortunate. As a result, those threads were terminated and more moderators were added.

That has resulted, in the opinion of some here (including me), in WB becoming far more heavilty moderated than is necessary to prevent the nastiness of the Politics Forums. It seems that quite a few posts are deleted for very minor, if not trivial, "TOS" violations, and threads are often closed now when moderators - one, primarily - say, "There is nothing more that can be said so this thread is closed," which to some of us seems like censorship. Other times, threads are closed, posts deleted or other actions taken when a moderator seems to overreact about "hostility." In short, much of the character of WB, in being a site where people could really discuss things frankly about trail topics is gone.

Thus, there is much to learn, for example, in the Warren/Jack debate, or about how to act in hostels, or weapons on the trail. Some of the posts can, and should, be as polite as a church school; others can be bawdy, accusatory, even wildly sarcastic without being having to be deleted or terminated. If you're not sure what I'm talking about, go to TrailPlace even now, where there is a set of behavior rules, express and implied, that throttle much of the fun of sharing viewpoints. Some of us are concerned that WB has moved too much in that direction.

I don't know if that helps, or if it matters to you. To some, finding out about the best pack, or what a shelter is like, is all they are looking for. For others, it's a bit more.

The Weasel

[Jack Tarlin]

Just want to clear up a few things:

*I had nothing to do with the start of this website. A casual reading of
the first paragraph of Weasel's post might lead one to think otherwise; one
might further think that I was one of the folks who was looking for a new
place because I was disgruntled or angry with Dan Bruce.

*I left Trailplace for any number of reasons, not all of which Weasel is aware
of, and I really wish he'd left me out of his comments altogether. I never
really had much of a beef with the way Dan ran Trailplace; it was, after all,
his website. In retrospect, I think most of the folks that got kicked off the
site probably deserved it, and it astounds me that many of them still carp on
this years and years later. My voluntary departure from Trailplace was
more a matter of clashing personalities than it was with anger over how Dan
ran his website. But honestly, this years of complaining about how a
website is operated.......this gets a little ridiculous. You don't like how a
guy operates his own personal website? Easy. Don't go there, or start your
own site.

*I also want to make it clear that I have no complaints whatsoever about
how this website is administered. I think the folks that run the website are
doing a great job, and likewise, the various administrators. I've had
dealings with just about all of them in regards to some of my own posts, as
well as my questions or complaints about stuff posted by others. I haven't
always agreed with the decisions or the reasoning of the Moderators, but in
my correspondence with them, without exception, they've been prompt,
civil, helpful, and very open. I therefore didn't much care for the recent
bitch session "Who's your favorite moderator!" which quickly degenerated
into anonymous personal attacks. I think if you have a beef with a
particular individual or administrator, you'd do best to contact that person
privately. But do I think that the present website is overly moderated or
censored? No, I do not, and it's unfortunate that Weasel's capsule history
of Whiteblaze might lead folks to think otherwise.


In short, I think Whiteblaze in its present incarnation is just fine, and that people that spend more than a few minutes worrying about this alleged burning issue have too much time on their hands.

[Terraducky]

How is it possible to sum up what people get out of this site, and why would anyone want to? Nobody's hands but your own are on the mouse and keyboard, at least that's how I learned to use the internets. So much hand-wringing going on today.

Gotta agree with this one WHen the chatting gets too much scroll till you find what you need!

[Lone Wolf]

How is it possible to sum up what people get out of this site, and why would anyone want to? Nobody's hands but your own are on the mouse and keyboard, at least that's how I learned to use the internets. So much hand-wringing going on today.

the only thing i get out of this site is entertainment. i never use it for trail info. i already know everything there is to know

[Jester2000]

the only thing i get out of this site is entertainment. i never use it for trail info. i already know everything there is to know

The only thing we can learn from this post is that Lone Wolf is easily entertained.

[max patch]

The goal here was to have a site where people could speak their mind about any topic related to the AT and backpacking, as long as it did not become personally offensive or profane.

If you logged onto WB before 6:00 am back in the "good old days of WB" you got to read all types of posts which contained vulgar language that were directed at individuals. The low point was a detailed description of which "butt plug" a well known trail legend preferred.

No, the "good old days of WB" were anything but good.

[Cool AT Breeze]

If you logged onto WB before 6:00 am back in the "good old days of WB" you got to read all types of posts which contained vulgar language that were directed at individuals. The low point was a detailed description of which "butt plug" a well known trail legend preferred.

No, the "good old days of WB" were anything but good.

That was good intertainment.

[Tipi Walter]

more of a Trailplace site

Yeah, but just add one letter and you get a dynamite forum: TRAILSPACE.

It is a website for Appalachian Trail Enthusuiasts. What are you?
There are other websites.

WB is partly a website for AT hikers, it's also a website for backpackers and backpacking and for a wide variety of other trails: BMT, CDT, PCT, etc etc. And then there's the gear forums and all the rest.

[The Weasel]

I'm glad Jack has commented. Even as he is correct that he was not a part of the earliest posting group, he has always been valued here and I think his post shows that he has not felt inhibited about saying what he thinks. I"m glad of that, as are most people here.

TW

[A-Train]

To me the site is more boring and less entertaining, but honestly, it still serves its purpose, to educate on and provide a venue for conversation ABOUT HIKING.

While it was fun to log on and see who had written the most recent 1000 word diatribe about the president, government or arch-enemy poster, this "discourse" did little to better this site. I'm all for free speech, but I don't see how this strengthened the WB community or made it a more attractive place for newbies to come and hangout.

This place is still great, albeit a little boring. Which IMO is a good thing

[max patch]

I'm glad Jack has commented. Even as he is correct that he was not a part of the earliest posting group, he has always been valued here and I think his post shows that he has not felt inhibited about saying what he thinks. I"m glad of that, as are most people here.

TW

Agreed. When Jack joined WB the collective trail IQ jumped up quite a few points.

[Lone Wolf]

oy vey

[yaduck9]

Take a deep breath......Let it out, Take a deep breath............Let it out

Repeat.

[neighbor dave]

where are my boots, it's gettin deep

[Jack Tarlin]

Well, thanx, Max for the kind words, but they were a bit over the top. I seem to remember that Troll and Sgt. Rock's start dates here at Whiteblaze were in early September 2002 and mine was in mid-October, i.e. all of 40 days later. Woulda been here sooner but I was thru-hiking at the time and didn't even find out about Whiteblaze til my trip was over.

So as for Whiteblaze's collective IQ going markedly up after my arrival, um, no, it was doing fine by the time I got here.

But while we're on the subject, in just a couple of days, those guys I just mentioned will mark their 7th anniversary here.

Thanx guys, for everything.

[chefjason]

I'll try, Chef, since that's a fair question as you present it. Others may have different viewpoints.

*I deleted most of the quote cause it was soooo darn long.

I don't know if that helps, or if it matters to you. To some, finding out about the best pack, or what a shelter is like, is all they are looking for. For others, it's a bit more.

The Weasel

Weasel, thank you for taking the time to articulate such a well thought out response. I much prefer that to a simple, "this place used to be awesome, now it sucks" response which only displays a lack of ability to convey ideas with intelligence. So, the long story short is this used to be a free-for-all chat room style forum that has now been made a little more rigid by the addition of some mods who, according to some, abuse their power. This is the gist of what I read. Like I stated, I have been on many a forum and this one seems rather loose and free. Lone Wolf makes disparaging remarks about peoples ideas all the time and I don't see those post deleted. I have seen quite a few rather stern criticisms of very specific peoples intelligence level and seen no retribution. i think the mods here let a good bit go. Make sure you read what I just typed..."I THINK"meaning MY opinion. I am not calling any one wrong, or implying the wise. Just making a statement of fact of my view. Again TW, thanks for taking the time.

Just want to clear up a few things:

*deleted a lot of your text too.


In short, I think Whiteblaze in its present incarnation is just fine, and that people that spend more than a few minutes worrying about this alleged burning issue have too much time on their hands.

So Jack likes WB. Me too. Cept for that Gator! He is just a bully!

[Jim Adams]

I used to be on WB as much as possible when I first found it because it was fun, entertaining and enjoyable as well as informative.
Now it just sucks! I get on maybe 3 times / week read the topics, occassionaly post and then get back off the site. 99% of what is on here is no longer entertaining and rarely informative....always the same views and answers because to change or disagree invites censorship.
Get rid of the mods...the old WB is sorely missed.
If you want good hiking advice go talk directly with LW, Jack or go to Neel's Gap. You have people on this site giving thru hiking advice that have never been on the AT let alone thru hiked or section hiked the entire trail.
Let the topics and chips fall as they may...hell with all of this political correctness and let the site progess instead of regress!
If you don't like the site then you can always go to other sites that tell you how you should think. It seems that all of the long time interesting posters have also become mundane just to keep posting...fresh out of the cookie cutter.
Go back to the old WB...back when it was interesting and FUN!
Just my .02.

geek

[chefjason]

I used to be on WB as much as possible when I first found it because it was fun, entertaining and enjoyable as well as informative.
Now it just sucks! I get on maybe 3 times / week read the topics, occassionaly post and then get back off the site. 99% of what is on here is no longer entertaining and rarely informative....always the same views and answers because to change or disagree invites censorship.
Get rid of the mods...the old WB is sorely missed.
If you want good hiking advice go talk directly with LW, Jack or go to Neel's Gap. You have people on this site giving thru hiking advice that have never been on the AT let alone thru hiked or section hiked the entire trail.
Let the topics and chips fall as they may...hell with all of this political correctness and let the site progess instead of regress!
If you don't like the site then you can always go to other sites that tell you how you should think. It seems that all of the long time interesting posters have also become mundane just to keep posting...fresh out of the cookie cutter.
Go back to the old WB...back when it was interesting and FUN!
Just my .02.

geek

Jack, you been sippin' that martini kinda early?

[chefjason]

Jack, you been sippin' that martini kinda early?

damnit all to hell. i just wanna be able to edit, without giving you my money!!

JIM!!, not jack.